PvP Defiance - MMR Changes Feedback

Discuss anything related to World War II: TCG

Moderator: mtormo

PvP Defiance - MMR Changes Feedback

Postby sgt_tom » 13 Mar 2021, 17:27

Greetings,

I haven't seen any topic for the January 21st pvp change announcement, so I would like to reflect to these changes:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app ... 4618939270

We have discussed this in the platoon, and we agreed that there are some serious problems with this update:

1 - The double points for first 30 match per season was a reasonable advantage because the game downgrades your rank badly at the start of each season. If you apply this change the rank downgrade drop for new season also should be reduced much more! As a result the pvp progress become very low.
To illustrae this here is a calculation how does it look like now:
Players who finishing in Elite league will be downgraded to rank 1800. Lets assume he wins all 15 games for double point, than he can reach rank 2000 (very far from diamond)
After that 3 point comes from victory vs AI, and 7 points for victories vs players.
To reach diamond will need to play 200 wins vs AI and/or 100 wins vs real players, and must win 90% of these matches!
This is very slow, and a little bit disappointing for me, and I'm wondering if it worth again to reach diamond as rank will be downgraded again next month to Elite league.

2 - I'm skipped the previous pvp season, so I my rank was downgraded badly, and currenty I'm stucked in the bottom of Elite league with a diamond deck. In order to reach diamond league the following required:
A - Extreme amount of gaming time what I cannot afford
B - Need to butcher lots of comrades in elite league with average decks (I found only 1 diamond deck so far) and I have a very bad feeling about that, so I'm sincerely apologise from these players. (other players in our platoon feels the same)
C - Lots of motivation to win 100/200 matches described above.
D - Destroy the game experience of players with Epic Eltie decks (to reduce this, I set up a weak deck for pvp deck slot for the time when I don't play, so AI pvp will use it instead of my Diamond deck)

3 - League level ranges.
The new ranges would be ok with 30 double match bonus. With 15 it's not okay at all.

To sum it up:
Pro:
- The mathcmaking is faster
- More games vs real players
Cons:
- The new level up system is very slow and grindy, and unfair as desctibed above.
- Other players also finds the progress too slow now. In out platoon (top 6) we currently have 1 player with diamond ranking at the middle of the season, however 80% of the players had diamond rank with the previous ranking system.
- Don't fix if something is not broken. Could you please revert back the double point for the first 30 victories?
sgt_tom
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 55
Joined: 26 Feb 2020, 18:49

Re: PvP Defiance - MMR Changes Feedback

Postby mtormo » 15 Mar 2021, 09:40

Hello!

Thanks for your suggestions, we did several adjustments on the March League, the starting point after the soft reset was increased (for example a player who finished almost in diamond league, starts around 2000 points). It was necessary to do the changes with the offline matches as the points given were too much.

While we are happy about points given in offline matches and how to get to higher tiers, we're still adjusting the soft reset values and how each monthly season starts to make the pvp better and we'll keep improving this point in the next seasons.

Regards,
User avatar
mtormo
WWIITCG Admin
WWIITCG Admin
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 18:47

Re: PvP Defiance - MMR Changes Feedback

Postby sgt_tom » 22 Mar 2021, 12:22

Hello Devs,

I still beleive that PVP is going to the wrong direction as the current progress is extra slow and grindy (other players also confirmed it)
If you don't beleive me, please have a look at the numbers to see how many former diamond players reached 2500+ rank.
1 week left from the season, and the current status is:
- on pvp screen ranking - only 42 players are there (the top 50 is not even filled)
- I'm in a top 6 platoon, and only 1 player is qualified for Diamond league. However this number was always 10+ with the previus pvp ranking system. Not because the players are lazy, it's because of the demotivation of extra slow progress (+3 rank for offilne victory, and +6 rank for online evictory) which requires 200 wins vs AI and/or 100 wins vs real players to reach diamond (this best case scenario assumes that you barely lose matches)
- In top 5 platoon - also only 1
- In top 4 platoon - currently 2-3

So with this pvp change you restircted Diamond league for the top 3 platoon only :(
The majority of top 10 platoon players are excluded as they are casual players (not as hardcore as top 3 platoon) but they also have diamond decks.
So we are forced to play in elite league with diamond decks vs weaker opponents and defeating them is no fun at all (I beleive they also don't like to play vs diamond decks)
Top 4-10 platoon players needs a league where they can play. It's not the diamond league because it's unreachable (takes 3 weeks to reach, and will be demotion next month so it does not worth the effort) and it's also not the elite leage (that is for new players and we don't want to destroy their pvp experience)

The previous pvp system was much better.
My proposals to remediate this situation:
1 - Create a 4th league between diamond and elite league
2 - and/or - Restore the 30 win starter double bonus
3 - and/or - Restore the league ranges
4 - and/or - Do not decrease the ranking of players so much at the end of each season.

Is there any change to add these points to your to do list and reconsider the current system?
sgt_tom
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 55
Joined: 26 Feb 2020, 18:49

Re: PvP Defiance - MMR Changes Feedback

Postby mtormo » 23 Mar 2021, 08:50

Hello,

As I mentioned on the last post we did several adjustments on this monthly league and we'll keep working towards this end (the values of the soft reset). I've tried my best to explain all the changes in different posts and discord and the reason behind each of the changes. We understand that the starting point for each month is a bit low (soft reset value) and we'll keep adjusting so players are quickly positioned on their rating after each month.

Regards,
User avatar
mtormo
WWIITCG Admin
WWIITCG Admin
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 18:47

Re: PvP Defiance - MMR Changes Feedback

Postby sgt_tom » 01 Jun 2021, 12:46

Hello Devs,

For testing purpose I made the PVP progress to diamond league for the very first time in the new pvp system, and I'm sharing the expereinces with you:

- This is the first time I made diamond progress with the new system
- I started at rank 1800 and finished 2502
- Stats: 190/173 (lost 14 matches, and got 3 losses from system synchronisation issue)
- This was very time consuming, and I did not enjoy the wins as some good players were butchered (sorry for that)
- If you are close to the next league, the progress become extra slow (finding opponents will timeout in 80sec, if you get AI opponent that will give 2 points only)
- I finished at 60th position which is the last place in diamond league at the end of season. This means that approximately 60 people reached diamond league - in the old pvp system there were 150+ diamond members. Do you feel the difference?

Conclusion:
My concerns/proposals what I wrote in the previous posts are still valid. Diamond membership is very restricted, you need to destroy elite league player experience if you want to jump to diamond, and it's very time consuming if you start from the beginning of elite league (does not worth the effort).
I still believe that the old PVP system was much better as 30x double points helped a lot to go back to your league quickly where your real opponents are (to minimize interfering with smaller players.)

Image
sgt_tom
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 55
Joined: 26 Feb 2020, 18:49

Re: PvP Defiance - MMR Changes Feedback

Postby mtormo » 02 Jun 2021, 08:31

Hello,

Thanks for share your experience, we really appreciate that. While we'll keep working to find a good balance between the difficulty, the challenge and the time needed to climb the ladder, we believe that the results are better than before, where climbing the ladder was something easy to achieve and even players give away victories to other players as they quickly reach the top of the ladder.

As always thanks for taking your time and give as your feedback, it helps a lot.

Regards,
User avatar
mtormo
WWIITCG Admin
WWIITCG Admin
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 18:47


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron