Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

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Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby gusgus78 » 11 Oct 2019, 09:39

Hi Devs!

Please, look at this:

1- Ramcke
1- Ron Unit
1- Gloster Meteor
1- M2 Browning
1- Bombe
1- Fukuryu Suicide Attack Suits
1- Plastic Explosive
1- Free Faction Medal (commendation)
1- Free Faction Object
1- NOSB
1- Noborito Laboratory
1- Fear
1- Better Equipment
2- 305mm Howitzer

These 15 cards are present in almost all the decks we see in PvP. This means that almost all decks are copies in about 50%. This way, in deckbuilding, just put those cards, add 15 faction units (usually Brit Ships, German Planes, Brit Infantry or US infantry) and you have done a perfect deck to face PvP. So everytime same cards, same decks, over and over and over.

I am not saying that I suggest to restrict the decks to a single faction, but I think game should offer alternatives to make the deck building a little more tactical. In fact, I think that allowing multi-faction decks is good chance for new/average players because maximizes the quality of deck they can build. BUT, in my opinion, it is very boring to predict which card your opponent will play before he/she does, not for having mental powers but because very usually are the same. In this way, ¿why do we have a wide range of cards if at least 15 cards in each deck are the same? ¿Why to keep creating more and more cards if nobody is going to use them? ¿Why to try to build an different deck (those brave players who try it) if it is not going to take chance against template decks?

Me, personally, try to avoid to use as much as possible other cards different than the faction I want to use (never use Ramcke in a no-German deck, never use Ron Unit in a no-Soviet deck and so on). Sometimes it is very difficult don't be tempted to use the most useful and powerful cards, whether or not they are of the same faction, just for reach more winning ratio. I understand it but do not agree.

I think one (of many) solution to this would be to improve the cards that already exists but are outdated, unusable or even illogical. A little example: in the case of destruction orders cards, the always-in is NOSB. Then, if players use the German faction, players should have enough alternatives orders as good as it (like Confusion or Heavy Bombardment) in German faction to make us doubt (at least) between which of the two to use in the deck. If not, the tactical capability is reduced to only 15 cards: the remaining ones are already chosen by default (just copy-paste). There are dozens of cards that I (and nobody I guess) have never seen in play nor I have played. I suggest check all those cards to make them competitives and logical again (or playables at least).

Also, its just enough to check the most used players decks (i guess you can see it easily) to confirm the huge difference in quality, speed or/and strength that still exist between some factions/types and others. An example: just pick a Brit Ships deck and a Brit Armored deck (using cards above) and simulate a match... both of them (and many others faction/types) are in really different leagues. Result: you always see in PvP same 4-5 decks over and over, whose 50% of cards are identical.

By last, even in rarity Diamond level, there are huge differences in quality between some cards (not by amount of skills they have but by nature of abilities they have, attack/defense values or AP needed to deploy/promote them). Just see which cards are more crafted by players and which nobody have crafted yet. A little example (there are many of them) can be: M22 Locust (US Armored) vs. HMS Nelson (Brit Ship). Both of them come from rare rarity level, BUT when you see both Diamonds, they are very very very far away in quality, even more (if possible), if you bear in mind the huge difference by default that exists between Brit Ships and US Armored faction-types (among others).

It is an opinion of mine and does not represent, in any case, others one.

Greetings!!
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Re: Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby dino66 » 11 Oct 2019, 17:11

Hi Gusgus78,
You are absolutely right. I agree with your opinion. The game is stagnant. It doesn't matter the number of new cards unless the old ones are unbalanced. There are many overpower diamond cards and many weak ones. Most players use the same cards.
Best regards.
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Re: Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby Johnwayne » 11 Oct 2019, 20:25

I agree with your assessment of unequal cards of same rarity. I also agree about the same cards being used in every deck. I use a core of at least 7 cards in each deck no matter unit type and maybe a dozen in same unit type decks. I don’t think this good either but cheaper to build more decks. I think this would be a negative for devs because more cards aren’t being crafted. I do think the solution is 1 faction decks for pvp. This would result in more cards crafted, more variety, less op decks. Understanding this would be more difficult for new players I would wave this requirement in soldier league.
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Re: Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby Johnnyguitar » 12 Oct 2019, 15:01

Well if you put only one faction cards in the deck i can a.ready predict the decks that will see play...german planes and for sure british ships (they don’t really need any other factions to play)
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Re: Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby Johnwayne » 12 Oct 2019, 18:30

For what’s its worth I played several games with the following 1 faction decks without any discernible difference in game play.

Us planes
Us ships
German planes
Brit ships
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Re: Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby Aine » 12 Oct 2019, 19:00

Hi gusgus!

I don't really play PvP, I find it boring and the main reason are the waiting times, both before the game, and then in-game. Most of my matches are however against AI-led players' decks, which is kinda better, coz even though the AI play mostly weird/bad, at least it's fast enough.
You listed 15 cards that each deck uses. I cannot tell from my experiences (as I mostly meet "bots" os any kind), but in my league it's not bad. (Maybe I'm just biased, and I also play like 2-4 matches/day, so my experience is low.) I not only don't meet those cards, I don't even use them, at least not many of them. Granted, I use my raid deck in PvP (mostly coz I just wanna play it more than just 4y per day), and there are some things that could be "improved" considering the PvP, but yeah.

Shame that there's no way how to export the decklist (at least I know of none), and I'm lazy to write down the decklist, but fom the 15 cards you've named, I play 1- Ramcke, 1- M2 Browning, 1- Free Faction Medal (commendation)
1- Free Faction Object, and 2- 305mm Howitzer (and those only because there's no secondary German artillery).

So I'm not sure how grave the situation is, and yeah there are a few cards that are extremely powerful and/or annoying (namely RON, but thankfully I haven't play against it for weeks). I'd love to see faction decks, I'd love to see Italy / Minor Axis faction, I'd love to see secondary artillery item for each nation, and I'd love to see the game rebalanced. The main issue in light of my last point is that there are many cards that are simply unplayable, that the game is based / geared towards the crafted/diamond/elite übercards, and that as a result the PvP scuks and the community is (maybe) negatively affected.

there's very little to be done about this except for some kind of drastic cut that would alienate the players, especially anyone who invested into the game (be it time or real money), and in fact the balancing act (and by this I mean REAL balancing, not some kind of pro forma -1/+1 here and there) needs to be accompanied by an overhaul of missions, raids and campaign design. I doubt that a small studio wiuth a hlaf-doezn of ppl is willing to take such a risk and involve themsleves in such a gigantic work.

Cheers

tl, dr: PvP sucks, but there are other reasons than the 15 mentioned by gusgus. It's really hard to change the fact, and unless there'd be na extreme blance patch, we'Re doomed to crappy PvP and a stunted community.
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Re: Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby Johnwayne » 13 Oct 2019, 21:35

I would love to see Italian and French cards!
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Re: Deckbuilding, Balance Faction-Types and Outdated Cards

Postby mtormo » 14 Oct 2019, 09:28

Hello,

While sharing the same rarity (diamond) some cards will be always more powerful than others. We tried to maintain a balance between all cards but there's always some cards will be always on the "top". Your post is really interesting and this is something that we're always discussing (cards that can be played in all decks).

The possibilities are the following:
    - Make all cards only useful for their faction. Really difficult, offensive "abilities" are really difficult to make them faction/type.
    - Give more faction/type benefits. This is what we try to do, for example in Warmachine, you have the ability to reduce cost of orders.
    - A large "nerf" card list. We're always opposed to a huge nerf of "old edition" cards, players have invested a lot to get these cards and we don't like to make them "outdated" when a new expansion appears.

There's some room for improvement, and now, with the expansion released we can focus on balance and adjustments as we always do. This expansion brings 50%+ more cards that the last expansion, there are a lot of options on Warmachine and we believe that new decks and "combos" will slowly appear.

Regards,
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