Protector

Report Bugs and any problems you may experience in the game

Moderator: mtormo

Protector

Postby Pieterr » 27 Oct 2019, 16:42

Hello,..
Today I was playing a hard mission (battle of the bulge).
This is what happened:
- I had a unit in the frontline (don't remember which one it was).
- Behind it in the supportline there was Wolf's Lair
The ai played:
- sherman firefly in the frontline
- it had nothing behind it in the supportline.

I expected the 2 frontline units to get into combat but instead the sherman firefly ignored my frontline unit and attacked my Wolf's Lair in the supportline.
Same situation happened in another mission, this time the ai had nothing in the frontline. Montgomery attacked my Wolf's Lair (supportline) and ignored my unit in the frontline.

Anyway, I know Wolf's Lair has gained the protector ability. It will always block.
But does this also mean that it will overtake the blockingduties of the unit in front of it?

Maybe this was/is intended. To me it was strange.
Pieter
Pieterr
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
 
Posts: 493
Joined: 17 Dec 2014, 16:36
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Protector

Postby Assassin » 27 Oct 2019, 17:10

Discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2021&hilit=Gazala&start=40

As I get it, it is intended...

Not an issue to me, but it changes gameplay a lot...
In bulge I sometimes put wolf lair behind something I want to survive...like horten
10.000 Lemmings can't be wrong...
User avatar
Assassin
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 1509
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 11:56
Location: Portugal

Re: Protector

Postby Aine » 19 Nov 2019, 19:28

Does Protector override Blitzkrieg? That's... uhm, well. wt least I'd love to read it on the card! :-D
Aine
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 253
Joined: 03 Sep 2017, 19:51

Re: Protector

Postby Super! » 19 Nov 2019, 20:43

Aine wrote:Does Protector override Blitzkrieg? That's... uhm, well. wt least I'd love to read it on the card! :-D


In the description of the ability it is wrtitten: Unit ALWAYS blocks ;)
Super!
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jul 2019, 17:29
Location: Italy

Re: Protector

Postby Aine » 20 Nov 2019, 07:31

Super! wrote:
Aine wrote:Does Protector override Blitzkrieg? That's... uhm, well. wt least I'd love to read it on the card! :-D


In the description of the ability it is wrtitten: Unit ALWAYS blocks ;)


Well, this is not the same as "overrides blitzkrieg", and as blitz makes the unit unblockable, I expected that this negation (the "can't be blocked") is applied over the "this always blocks", if that makes sense; see MtG rules on negations to (know where I) get the idea. Always blocks may just as well mean that one Protector could block its whole column, effectively blocking two units at once. (It always blocks, right?)

"Another example of the top of my head for "Can't beats Can" is Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Devoted Druid. You can't activate the Druid's untap abilty because for doing so, you'd have to put a -1/-1 counter on it, which Melira says can't happen, so you can't pay that cost."
Similarly, you can't block Panther with Protector unit, coz Panther can't be blocked, but obviously this is the other way around. Imho there should be a known rule how the two contradictory cards/wordings/rulings ork in these cases, so here clearly "Can beats Can't".

Cheers!
Aine
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 253
Joined: 03 Sep 2017, 19:51

Re: Protector

Postby mtormo » 20 Nov 2019, 08:49

Hello,

It's intended to block "blitz" units from the beginning, if players believe that the description is misleading with blitzkrieg, we can try to find a better description (suggestions are welcome ;) ).

Regards,
User avatar
mtormo
WWIITCG Admin
WWIITCG Admin
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 18:47

Re: Protector

Postby Aine » 20 Nov 2019, 18:41

mtormo wrote:Hello,

It's intended to block "blitz" units from the beginning, if players believe that the description is misleading with blitzkrieg, we can try to find a better description (suggestions are welcome ;) ).

Regards,


Well, this is more about general "filosofy" of rules. If the "Can Beats Can't" (or vice versa) was set in stone, it'll be clear that the "Protector blocks everything" is beaten by "Blitz unit cannot be blocked".
so the issue is not with the actual wording of cards, but with the overlaying/overarching design/system. There are two cards. One says "can't block", the other says "cannot can't block". Which one wins? Obviously it isn't (and shouldn't be) based on "time stamps", the order in which they came to play. So one of them must beat the ohter, but this isn't easily known from the actual cards: they just say what they do, not which one of them trumps the other.
Aine
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 253
Joined: 03 Sep 2017, 19:51

Re: Protector

Postby Assassin » 20 Nov 2019, 19:00

mtormo wrote:Hello,

It's intended to block "blitz" units from the beginning, if players believe that the description is misleading with blitzkrieg, we can try to find a better description (suggestions are welcome ;) ).

Regards,

Well...quick solution would be adding the "protector" exception to the description...something like "can only be blocked by units with the protector ability".

You seem to have the well know question...what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object... ;)
10.000 Lemmings can't be wrong...
User avatar
Assassin
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 1509
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 11:56
Location: Portugal

Re: Protector

Postby Aine » 01 Jan 2020, 22:04

Seriously, Protector is awful. At least remove that ability from Opel Blitz to make it a bit less useless.
Aine
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 253
Joined: 03 Sep 2017, 19:51

Re: Protector

Postby Super! » 01 Jan 2020, 23:43

Aine wrote:
Super! wrote:
Aine wrote:Does Protector override Blitzkrieg? That's... uhm, well. wt least I'd love to read it on the card! :-D


In the description of the ability it is wrtitten: Unit ALWAYS blocks ;)


Well, this is not the same as "overrides blitzkrieg", and as blitz makes the unit unblockable, I expected that this negation (the "can't be blocked") is applied over the "this always blocks", if that makes sense; see MtG rules on negations to (know where I) get the idea. Always blocks may just as well mean that one Protector could block its whole column, effectively blocking two units at once. (It always blocks, right?)

"Another example of the top of my head for "Can't beats Can" is Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Devoted Druid. You can't activate the Druid's untap abilty because for doing so, you'd have to put a -1/-1 counter on it, which Melira says can't happen, so you can't pay that cost."
Similarly, you can't block Panther with Protector unit, coz Panther can't be blocked, but obviously this is the other way around. Imho there should be a known rule how the two contradictory cards/wordings/rulings ork in these cases, so here clearly "Can beats Can't".

Cheers!


I know what you mean, i played MtG at a pro level 10 years ago but this just isnt the same game ;)
By the way, since the addition of the protector ability i have been winning a lot more games so i dont understand why you complain so much :D

Have a great day!
Super!
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jul 2019, 17:29
Location: Italy

Next

Return to Technical Support

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron