Preview: Balance Update

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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby Dugrim » 29 Sep 2014, 22:04

nAFAI wrote:Hey wolf,

Yes we discussed thoroughly about Flag rising, and it was not an easy call. In the end we decided to leave it as it is, as it's not as disruptive as it could be, yes it can avoid a certain death and prolong matches to some extent, but it's very unlikely that it will turn all the tides of a game around, and the fact that decided even matches in its last rounds is something we like about it.

We will monitor it of course as all cards are still open to future changes, but for the moment we will go on as it's.

Cheers!


I had a "fun" game against Jagor ( the actual n.1 in the PvP ladder)
1st Marine corp + Marshal Baton + Flag Raising + David McCampbell

Maybe he was lucky to draw exactly all the cards on the right order (David twice in a row), but i think that Flag Raising is an issue you should have to address.
Match like that, when you can do NOTHING (only stare) are a ruin for a game, even F2P games.
We are strong, we are patient, we'll win.
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby Jagor » 29 Sep 2014, 22:43

Hi Dugrim
i can understand that a situation like this is frustrating.
i know 3 counters for 1St Marine +Marshall Baton+Flag Raising+David.
maybe take a look at your Cards and think how you could react next time.
a very useful Card comes from Russia and thats all i say.

Btw DONT kill David !
I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth - rocks!
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby Dugrim » 30 Sep 2014, 01:51

I know that there are:
Sabotage, Spying, Incapacitated, 1st Rangers, Courageous Division, Code Interception, Captured etc etc...

BUT:
1) for most of the cards a simple upgrade of the unit nullifies them
2) Who plays them in a competitive environment? Who between the first 10 players use one of them? Seriously?

Maybe when more people will have flag raising and David people will start to use them; until then the few people with those cards have a huge advantage.
We are strong, we are patient, we'll win.
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby wolf » 30 Sep 2014, 09:39

Spying doesn't remove flag raising effects or "blue effects" in general. You can use capture to prevent his unit from attacking for one turn but that will just lead to an unfavourable board position. Reducing the attack of an unit with a command or rangers is "ok", downside is ofc as you mentioned: a simple promote will nullify the effect. The best way to counter flag raising is simply and by playing it yourself or make your units unblockable and attack him back.
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby Assassin » 30 Sep 2014, 10:25

Dugrim wrote:Maybe when more people will have flag raising and David people will start to use them; until then the few people with those cards have a huge advantage.

I agree...i have lots of problems fighting Flag Effects...i only started winning (and just a few times) against top players when i got 101 Airborne...and i only win when they get little access to flag cards...

There are only three (relative) effective ways to counter flags:
- A flag of your own...the best option when possible...stops the attack and usually allows a "free" counter attack
- Marshall Baton (if you have an unit in position)
- Incapacitate...of course that the unit will still be there next...

BUT...there are always cards that will be better...and i don't think it is an "huge" advantage...but IT IS an advantage...

On the other hand...i think flag raising is a bit "cheap" to use...it wrecks my strategy almost all the times...it is actually the best card in the game...
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby Jagor » 30 Sep 2014, 13:09

You can use capture to prevent his unit from attacking for one turn but that will just lead to an unfavourable board position.

True but it also gives you the chance that he didnt get Flag Raising or David in the next round. so you can attack the unit.
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby Assassin » 20 Nov 2014, 15:38

nAFAI wrote:Hey wolf,

Yes we discussed thoroughly about Flag rising, and it was not an easy call. In the end we decided to leave it as it is, as it's not as disruptive as it could be, yes it can avoid a certain death and prolong matches to some extent, but it's very unlikely that it will turn all the tides of a game around, and the fact that decided even matches in its last rounds is something we like about it.

We will monitor it of course as all cards are still open to future changes, but for the moment we will go on as it's.

Cheers!

I was looking for a post about flag raising...i guess this was it...or perhaps there is another somewhere...
You changed it since then, removing the player protection ability...i assume to avoid its excessive use as a delaying card...

However...2 points to protect ALL UNITS seems a bit on the cheap side...
I got smashed by this play yesterday...and i accept that it is supposed to be a strong Legendary...and i can understand its use...
BUT...the fact that my opponent could completly protect all his units (for his and my turn) and still add another card (before the protection) seems a bit excessive.

Most abilities charge three points to activate on ALL UNITS (e.g. Blitzkrieg)...and it usually makes sense...

I am not being a "sore loser"...the game was almost lost anyway...but my opponent got Flag Raising two turns in a row and used it twice on ALL UNITS (with the obvious consequences...very bad for me :cry: )...AND ADDED TWO CARDS to the board at the same time... :o

EDIT:
I am probably the only one "complaining" because i get to play A LOT against the few opponents that have this card...and it is not a BIG issue...just a note for devs to think about...
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby DaemonSultan » 20 Nov 2014, 19:32

Assassin wrote:I was looking for a post about flag raising...i guess this was it...or perhaps there is another somewhere...
You changed it since then, removing the player protection ability...i assume to avoid its excessive use as a delaying card...

However...2 points to protect ALL UNITS seems a bit on the cheap side...
I got smashed by this play yesterday...and i accept that it is supposed to be a strong Legendary...and i can understand its use...
BUT...the fact that my opponent could completly protect all his units (for his and my turn) and still add another card (before the protection) seems a bit excessive.

Most abilities charge three points to activate on ALL UNITS (e.g. Blitzkrieg)...and it usually makes sense...

I am not being a "sore loser"...the game was almost lost anyway...but my opponent got Flag Raising two turns in a row and used it twice on ALL UNITS (with the obvious consequences...very bad for me :cry: )...AND ADDED TWO CARDS to the board at the same time... :o

EDIT:
I am probably the only one "complaining" because i get to play A LOT against the few opponents that have this card...and it is not a BIG issue...just a note for devs to think about...


I experienced this too, during a match with Dugrim I guess. In fact, I was shocked when I found that Flag Raising for all costs 2 AP. It was so.. unimaginable. Actually, I've been thinking that David was better than the order Flag Raising before I knew this.
By the way I thought this game was very strict to mass denial. Think about mass denials like Enemy at gates, Confusion, Noborito lab and Manoeuvre warfare. Most of them have high cost, or low damage, or rank restriction, or some disadvantages. But to flag raising, which can be said the opposite of mass denial, it seems kind of.. too generous.
Legendary? You mean Imaginary.
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby Dugrim » 20 Nov 2014, 20:45

I totally agree.
I found it on my 100 levels with 3 stars and it' a real game changer.
It protects my Maus for 1 turn, letting me to upgrade it and won in the long run.
I think that 2 points are too cheap.
I know that is difficult to have more than 1 unit alive ( if both players have the same cards and skill level), but still...

I prefer McCampbell, it gives you board control and one unit protection, but flag all units with 2 points is really too cheap
I hope the devs will find a solution for that.
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Re: Preview: Balance Update

Postby wolf » 20 Nov 2014, 23:47

I think flag raising is good as it is now. It is no longer a must play to win card and for some time noone even played it.
The annoying part of flag raising was that it could target players, paying 2 points to protect your units does nothing alone. You need to have a strong board presence I would say at least 3 strong units to make a move like this viable. Also you will only play it when your opponent already has low life to secure a win.
I'm a little suprised that you value this card that high, just destroy the enemy units , make your own units unblockable or just promote them when your opponent wasted 2 points on flag raising. You will come out ahead 90% of the time.
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