Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby dino66 » 10 Jan 2020, 13:36

Hi Devs,
All players want better rewards from Gazala, Guadalcanal, Tengo, Bulge, Black Friday and Citadel Hard Missions.
Please equal these missions with the others (Dday, Iwo Jima, Stalingrad and Singapore).
This is the reason many players don't want to play Historical hard missions.
Best regards.
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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby Assassin » 15 Jan 2020, 18:35

dino66 wrote:Hi Devs,
All players want better rewards from Gazala, Guadalcanal, Tengo, Bulge, Black Friday and Citadel Hard Missions.
Please equal these missions with the others (Dday, Iwo Jima, Stalingrad and Singapore).
This is the reason many players don't want to play Historical hard missions.
Best regards.

Yes. One "assured" epic is what players look for these days...it takes time and effort to do an Hard mission...5 or 6 rares/common/uncommon may look nice on the screen, but after a while they are all to sell for some gold...and try again...

At the same time...we have now LOTS and LOTS of cards over several editions...as players are mostly buying packs from the latest edition, missions are a way to try to get some cards we don't have...from the previous edition...
One epic (with a chance at legendary) will still not be "too fast" IMHO...

BTW...try to keep the gold ratio "positive" for wins...in Singapore, Iwo and DDay it is possible to get ONE EPIC AND not lose gold (if you sell the other cards you win) om every win on HARD level.
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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby halev » 16 Jan 2020, 04:24

I agree with you, assassin. So I collected my Soviet pvp deck, playing hard Stalingrad. Ordinary, unusual, and rare cards can often be obtained from chests. Epic and legendary cards are much more difficult to get, so a guaranteed epic card with a percentage of legendary is what this game needs.
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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby mtormo » 16 Jan 2020, 09:33

Hello,

Historical missions have almost the same total "value" of gold/cards value and giving better rarity means reducing the amount of cards or gold given so we need to be careful on that. For veteran players, you are probably aiming for epic (legendary) because you have enough uncommon/rare cards for craft but this is not the case for all players, I can assure you that for other players require having more uncommon/rare cards to craft rather than extra epic card.

We understand that there's a gap here and something needs to be done with the rewards and we have a couple of ideas in our end. One of the things that we wanted to do in the past (linked to one of our expansions) was to add a more difficult level (expert maybe!) on Historical Missions with a higher drop for epic/legendary cards. With higher difficulty we can give more rewards and also have an option to play the Historical Missions that only give specific rewards such as Yamato Card.

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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby Assassin » 16 Jan 2020, 11:02

mtormo wrote:Hello,

Historical missions have almost the same total "value" of gold/cards value and giving better rarity means reducing the amount of cards or gold given so we need to be careful on that.

It doesnt feel that way. The gold value is not a precise indication of the card real value.
Beginner or veteran...Epic cards are far more valuable than the gold ratio indicates.

I think ALL players would prefer LESS cards and a assured EPIC. You can (and should) maintain the gold values if that is your metric...

I am a veteran and i am missing A HUGE number of epics (not to mention legendaries) from most card editions...and missions are the way to get them. If i play Iwo, DDay or the NEW Singapore i get one each win...so i am slowly improving on these. I doubt any player would argue against providing the same reward model on Guadalcanal, Bulge and Citadel...

I can open packs from any edition...but i am guessing most players open packs from the latest...so progress on previous editions slows down...

Not being ungrateful here...i really think the requested change would be much better for most players (if not all)...and apparently at no cost for Frozenshard (if you say rewards have same value)...
At least, when i was a new player i would prefer an Epic card...not sure why you think otherwise...

An EXPERT option MIGHT be nice...depending on the win ratios you aim at...it is very easy to make a desirable option become frustrating if you make it too hard...
I would try it on Guadalcanal ;) as it seems to be the easiest raid at the moment...(but you have numbers to check for that i guess)
Just curious...what win rate you consider adequate for a HARD raid...and what would be the target for an EXPERT? (if possible to know)
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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby Pieterr » 16 Jan 2020, 14:39

Hello,

I've been reading your answer and I'd like to reply to this.

First sentence:"Historical missions have almost the same total "value" of gold/cards and,...."
I don't understand this. I remember that we've discussed this in the past too. I've even described this in most of the guides I've made.
- You pay gold to play it;
- All the levels (but the last one) return gold (and possibly some cards) to you;
- If you're victorious on the final level you get cards;
Overall, if you'd sell all the cards, you've gained for winning this hard mission, you could even make a profit: In other words, the amount of gold for doing so is more than the price of gold you've paid for playing it.
To my opinion, this goes for some of the missions. Not all. So, I really don't understand how you can say that all the missions are the same?
Maybe you've intended this phrase differently? Or maybe I'm wrong? But please explain.

Another phrase: "I can assure you that for other players require having more uncommon/rare cards to craft rather than extra epic card"
If you say so. When I've started this game, crafting hadn't been launced yet as an additional game-feature. So I was really happy with every epic or legend I gained. For this reason I can't compare myself then with the situation new players are in now. However, if I'd take a look at the current situation: If you want uncommons and rares? You buy chests! For the basic set this is already very cheap. For the other sets, it's 500 gold. Chances that you get an epic or a legend out of them are rather poor as it is.
Another possibility is that you provide more commons, uncommons and rares on the medium level of an historical mission and that the hard historical missions are reserved for veteran players. To me this makes sense because new players (which you've said are more after uncommons and rares) battle the medium difficulty first before they take on the hard difficulty.
Besides all this, I doubt that new players are unhappy with gaining a legend or an epic. But this is my word against yours.

Finally, I want to share my thoughts on the last idea you've presented which is to make an extra difficulty on historical missions (the expert level).
As I understand that achieving victory on an expert level will grant a guaranteed reward such as Yamato.
To be short: I'm not playing Ten-Go anymore. This is because I'm not happy with the amount of gold and raidcoins which I get for selling this card back to the computer. Why should I even consider to play this expert level.

I hope this feedback will be of any use to you. By the way, if you find a bit of time could you share some of your progress on the january update? I'm really curious what it'll have in store for us.

Thanks for reading and Cheers,
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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby halev » 16 Jan 2020, 17:06

mtormo wrote:I can assure you that for other players require having more uncommon/rare cards to craft rather than extra epic card.

Return officer chests for 150 gold in the store. This will be the best solution for beginners.
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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby mtormo » 17 Jan 2020, 09:41

Hello,

Just curious...what win rate you consider adequate for a HARD raid...and what would be the target for an EXPERT? (if possible to know)

We're always looking for a winning chance of at least 50%, usually the win-ratio is higher (depends a lot of what "segment" of players you review or if we look it overall).

Return officer chests for 150 gold in the store. This will be the best solution for beginners.

We have the enlisted chest, we believe that both chests at the same time for gold is not needed and sometimes can be confused for new players.

So, I really don't understand how you can say that all the missions are the same?
Maybe you've intended this phrase differently? Or maybe I'm wrong? But please explain.

While the rewards are different on each historical missions, we check this to calculate the value:
- Amount of gold
- Chance to get a card
- Rarity Chance
It's no the same a 100% guaranteed card that a 25% chance to get card for "value" purposes (the same goes for rarities) and the total value is similar. (we can't take into account if the cards are useful or not, they have always the "maximum" value).

"I can assure you that for other players require having more uncommon/rare cards to craft rather than extra epic card"

Maybe I wasn't clear on this point, I was talking about when a new player starts to craft their first cards and he's still missing a lot of rare/uncommon cards. If the player has not started to craft cards, an epic card is more useful (and interesting!) than a bunch of uncommon/rare cards.


We'll discuss the Historical Missions (rewards, new difficulties, changes,...) with your feedback so we can improve them on a future update (it won't be in the January update as we're finishing it with a lot of new craft cards and other raid/balance adjustments). It's cleat that some changes are required in this feature and we'll work on this point as soon as possible.

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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby Pieterr » 17 Jan 2020, 10:43

I'm very dissapointed.
To me the adjustment of the rewards for beating hard historical missions was (by far) the most important matter on the January update.
Instead this is being posponed and other issues, like reviewing raids and (again) new (craftable) cards seem to have a higher priority.
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Re: Singapore, Bulge, Guadalcanal

Postby Assassin » 12 Feb 2020, 12:35

I complained here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2135

Being constructive.
There are already way many Epic cards, plus legendaries and the need to craft lots of them. These are spread trough many editions and each player usually has some cards he feels are eluding him, as random numbers are different and each player needs/wants different cards by now...
I DONT THINK Frozenshard economy will plummet if you make it a bit easier to get epic/legendaries...particularly from older editions.
It is boring to WIN dozens of missions and get no useful card.

The initial missions (DDay, Stalingrad, IwoJima) already provide interesting rewards for their difficulty...it makes sense to me to use these as an example.
Ideally (for players), you would simply "upgrade" the rewards of all missions to the above model, but with packs from the specific editions.

In alternative...you can add the mentioned "EXPERT" difficulty in missions...to differentiate new and veteran players.
Singapore before was a good example of a possible "EXPERT" difficulty...it was harder than the others but provided an assured Epic. As it is now it is TOO DIFFICULT for the provided rewards. Would make sense to either make it easier and keep the rewards or reinstate the previous rewards. Or both using the "HARD" and "EXPERT" difficulties.

Bulge and Guadalcanal presently can be examples of "HARD" difficulty...and therefore provide no guaranteed epic...but could benefit from a slightly harder "EXPERT" difficulty. In Bulge, you could even use the previous difficulty (before last update) as template for "EXPERT"
Just don't overdo the difficulty...Singapore is a bit on the limit as sometimes the AI gets crazy combos.

In Short:
Veteran players will mostly play HARDER missions (within reason) if they provide an assured Epic and better chance at Legendary (i.e. General pack)
IMHO There is leeway to provide more epic cards as rewards
Getting lots of useless cards gets annoying after a while...
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