Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

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Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby gusgus78 » 16 Apr 2018, 17:22

Hi!

After more than 4 years playing this jewel-game (I really really like it...), I would like to share some perceptions of mine about factions and types that I hope some players agree and, of course, can be taken in mind by Developers for next update(s). I will try to give some assessment from my point of view and will give from 1 to 5 stars (*) to each type to represent the quality of each one IMO:

German faction: Important/Unique abilities: Blitzkrieg & Well Equiped. Maybe the most complete of all faction. All types have free deploy and promoters units. One of those faction that everyone want to upgrade because always effective.
Infantry type: Excellent deck, units like AK and Ramcke make it a very good choice. Punctuation: *****
Armored type: As infantry, excellent deck. Diamond units make it a very powerfull and sudden-killer deck. Punctuation: *****
Plane type: Good deck but a bit slow even with new item (cant remember its name). Punctuation: ****
Ship type: Good deck but as Planes, its a bit slow. Combining with Armored can work. Punctuation: ****
Global inter-type Punctuation: 4,5

American faction: Important/Unique abilities: Flag Raising & Machine Gun. One of the most complete factions on game BUT very slow. Few units with Deploy ability are weak so you usually lose for missing speed. Simply you have no time to punch 1 or 2 hits with double damage before opponet kills you.
Infantry type: Good deck, units like Rangers (various of them) and 2 promoters cards make it usable. Punctuation: ****
Armored type: Average deck even with free deploy, promoters and +3/+5 abilites units. Much slow. Punctuation: ***
Plane type: Maybe the worst type of this faction. Only one promoter card and as other types too slow. NOT ENOUGH units to build an entire decent type deck. Punctuation: **
Ship type: Maybe the better type of faction but, with 1 exception, slow as well. Punctuation: ****
Global inter-type Punctuation: 3,25

British faction: Important/Unique abilities: Invincible & Expeditionary Force. One of the most fast-strong faction in game (depending of type you choice). The most inter-types combinable faction for sure.
Infantry type: Maybe the better and fast type of faction. NOT ENOUGH units to build an entire type deck so you have to combine it. Punctuation: *****
Armored type: Maybe the worst type of faction. Units so weak and slow. Only 2 exceptions. Punctuation: **
Plane type: Good type to combine with others. NOT ENOUGH units to build an entire type deck so you have to combine it forcely. Punctuation: ***
Ship type: Good type. Can work if units with Invincible ability survives first turns. Punctuation: ****
Global inter-type Punctuation: 3,5

Russian faction: Important/Unique abilities: Sniper, Shock Effect & Armor Penetration. The most air supremacy faction on game for sure. If you want to win with this faction play planes, else your wont.
Infantry type: Average type but no units with deploy ability make it too slow. Punctuation: ***
Armored type: Average type but units are so weak. Only 4 units with Deploy ability. Punctuation: ***
Plane type: The most strong-fast type of faction. You can put many of planes on battlefield on each turn. Punctuation: *****
Ship type: Good type but NOT ENOUGH units to build an entire decent type deck. Ron Unit maybe is one of the most versatile unit on entire game. Punctuation: ***
Global inter-type Punctuation: 3,5

Japan faction: Important/Unique abilities: Among Us & Surprise/Sudden Attack. Overpowered at all faction on game since Ships arrived.
Infantry type: Good type, can make massive damage to units on battlefield. A bit slow but works. Punctuation: ****
Armored type: The worst-weak type of faction -and maybe in entire game-. Units with deploy are so weak. Even with free deploy and promoters units its the type less played in game. Punctuation: **
Plane type: Good type by its own. Combined with Ships its totally out from this world. Punctuation: ****
Ship type: For sure the more unbalanced type inter-faction on game. Units that promotes -even each turn-, free deploys, takes extra AP (many of those abilities at same turn) and "the beast" Yamato. Definitely out range with respect to other types/faction. Punctuation: *******
Global inter-type Punctuation: 4,25

You can see there are weak types that nobody plays (or a few brave players dare to do it), good-most-played types, overpowered types and worst of all IMO: types that cant be played by its own without combine with others types because no enough units. This way I would like to recommend you (Devs) would put an eye on:

German faction: I think it is ok as it is right now. Maybe an AK Diamond wouldnt be bad (joking) :D

American faction: It would be really useful Landing Craft on Elite/Diamond versions: this card could give some speed to faction.
Armored type: A bit more of speed (again) it wouldnt be bad.
Planes type: It would be nice more units, another promoter and no bad at least 1 unit with deploy ability. David McCampbell Diamond wouldnt be bad as well.

British faction: I think its reasonably good faction except for some details (more units mainly).
Infantry type: Needs more units. Cant be played by its own.
Armored type: More units needed and attack/defense of some of them should be revised because too much weak.
Plane type: More units needed, specially a promoter and another +3/+5 enhacer. Cant be played by its own.

Russian faction: I think its reasonably good faction. Shock Effect should be improved (or revised).
Infantry type: A bit more of speed would be nice to take advantage of Sniper ability... as it is now it isnt useful.
Armored type: Maybe it would be good check attack/defense of some units... some of them seems like obsolete.
Plane type: Maybe it needs to be nerfed a bit. For example rollback 2AP to promote LA-7 as before update or no more than 2 free deploy planes inside faction.
Ship type: More units needed, specially a promoter one. Ron Unit have to be revised although its ok for me. ;)

Japan faction: After update (Ships) it has gone from being the worst faction to the highly the best-overpowered.
Armored type: It has to be revised entirely. Its really strange to see this facion-type on PvP.
Plane type: Its Ok always it isnt combined with Ships. If you do, you take a monster-deck.
Ship type: Special mention to this faction type. It has to be revised entirely IMO. Yamamoto shoudnt free deploy and promote EVERY TURN at same time (having planes that plays for free). I-400 shoudnt take an additional AP and free deploy with that awesome attack/defense. Shokaku unit is a demon... take in mind that when a unit has enhancer +3/+5 ability PLUS Deploy ability PLUS decrease defense of opponents it can be a really overpowered beast on battlefield... maybe decreasing its attack and/or defense.... dont know. Akatsuki promotes and deploys too.... with only 2AP you have a killer 1st turn combo with it and Shokaku... and if you take Yamamoto on same turn the match is finished before begins. In any case, Japan Ships are in another league... and if you combine them with Planes you will have an unbeatable deck... no matter what faction you play or how many Diamonds you have.

Aside this, i would like you check this topic: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1299&p=8395&hilit=intermediate#p8395 ... it would be really great IMO that Orders would have same rarity steps as others cards... and Ships would be targeted with mainly Orders as other types do...

Greetings!!
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby mtormo » 17 Apr 2018, 08:08

Hello,

A really nice text with really useful information. Just to answer a small question of yours, we're doing a bit of changes in orders similar to intermediare craft cards.

Regards,
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby Assassin » 17 Apr 2018, 10:48

mtormo wrote:"... similar to intermediare craft cards."

Didnt quite get what this means...but looking forward to see it...

As to what Gus says...i dont 100% agree...but more than 90%...
Even with LOTS of games between the two of us we still see different details...which is good and means game is "rich" :D

Jap tanks can actually hold a bit...IF (and this is a big IF) supported by ships (and eventually infantry). As all "bad" factions it will go down to the luck of the draw...a good draw you will cause trouble to your opponent...(in this case this means O-I and a free deploy tank)...a bad draw and you are probably dead.
BUT...they can surely be improved...i think US air is worse...and perhaps even brit tanks...hard to gauge "bad" factions as they are not much used ;)

Brit Infantry is actually a good deck...usually with some air and/or ship support...tanks if you feel brave...but still a good option.

Good decks are more "immune" to bad draws...the Jap ship decks can survive lots of bad draws... ;)

Take special attention to decks NOT USED or those that CANT EVEN BE DONE...the "NOT ENOUGH" in gus posts. Game would benefit from cards in those areas...as an example...you can add "Hurricane" and "Typhoon" to brit air deck and make something workable...

The jap immortal ships deck is a MINORITY ISSUE...you have to play vs Thrax or 1944 to see it...so few do...not sure if visible in "global" stats. At lower level japs are not so much used or feared...but i am pretty sure lots players will last less than 3 turns vs one of these...
I suspect Brit ships will be also very strong if some player decides to Diamonize it...and of course...Russian air...

Anyhow...curious on "BALANCE" changes...no hint so far :D

BEAR IN MIND...i understand PERFECTLY that you cant easily nerf cards that players INVESTED IN (either money or time)...and prefer to enhance OTHERS to same effect...as this as an "economy" and "trust" issue attached...
But a couple units are plain "superhero" stuff...
(You nerfed Noborito, Bombe and V2 from "superhero" to "hard to use"...guess lots people werent happy...but was needed in my view...Diamond versions are at least rare...)
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby gusgus78 » 03 Jul 2018, 16:18

Hi!

After Stronghold expansion, some faction-types have became a bit better (as American Infantry for example) so you can see them in few matches. However, its really exceptional. Again, as happened before expansion end even before it, almost 90% of matches you face same predictible "standard decks" as: British Infantries, Japan Ships+Planes (a bit less because difficult of taking good crafted cards), Russian Planes, and even the historical German Infantries+Tanks.

I'm not complaining about it so I understand anyone can play whatever she/he wants to achieve most victories as possible... I only say that I find it highly and deeply boring, at least for me, to see same predictible "standard decks" over and over and over. Maybe the cause is because it still missing some balance actions. For example, its impossible, even with tons of luck, for Japan Tanks, American Planes or Russian Infantries to defeat British Infantries or Russian Planes decks.

Its obvious that some cards as NOSB, Noborito Laboratory, Ramcke, Gloster Meteor, M2 Browning and even 305mm Howitzer are "must-in-tools" cards that should be in any deck... BUT remaining 23 cards in decks could and should be equivalent in winning ratio, no matter faction or type.

Told this, I would like to share again my feeling per faction and type after expansion, categorizing them as: Out From This World, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Average, Poor and Very Poor scale:

German faction: Important/Unique abilities: Blitzkrieg & Well Equiped.
Infantry type: No tested but I can guess it still being Excellent faction-type.
Armored type: No tested but I can guess it still being Excellent faction-type.
Plane type: Tested in combination with Ships. By its own I guess it wont work against most used decks. Good faction-type.
Ship type: Tested in combination with Planes. By its own I guess it wont work against most used decks. Good faction-type.

American faction: Important/Unique abilities: Flag Raising & Machine Gun.
Infantry type: No tested but played against. After expansion with tons of new units, it has been improved. Very Good faction-type.
Armored type: No tested but even with new units added I can guess that if you dont combine it with other type, it wont work. Poor faction-type.
Plane type: No tested but even with new units added I can guess that if you dont combine it with other type like Ships, it wont work. Very Poor faction-type.
Ship type: No tested but played against. Except for one player's full shinnig deck wich is Amazing, its Very Good faction-type.

British faction: Important/Unique abilities: Invincible & Expeditionary Force.
Infantry type: No tested but played against. ¿Really it was necessary to improve them with 2 more Diamonds :(?. It was Excellent faction-type; now its Out From This World faction-type.
Armored type: Tested. With some new cards and the improvement of many others now it can be played with some other type reinforcements. Good faction-type.
Plane type: No tested but played against. Can work combined with other type. Average faction-type.
Ship type: Tested. As before update its Good faction-type.

Russian faction: Important/Unique abilities: Sniper, Shock Effect & Armor Penetration.
Infantry type: Tested although without new units. I havent seen many improvement. Average faction-type.
Armored type: Tested. No enough strong. Average faction-type.
Plane type: No tested but played against. As before update its an Excellent faction-type.
Ship type: Partially tested. No enough strong. Average faction-type.

Japan faction: Important/Unique abilities: Among Us & Surprise/Sudden Attack.
Infantry type: No tested but I can guess it still being Good faction-type.
Armored type: Partially tested. No enough strong. Poor faction-type.
Plane type: No tested but played against. Good faction-type by its own. Combined with Ships its Out From This World faction-type.
Ship type: No tested but played against. Out From This World faction-type.

As you can see IMO there are 2 faction-types that look ultra-overpowered at all: Japan Ships (combined with Planes or by its own) and British Infantries (with few other type reinforcements) and 2 faction-types that look clearly better than the rest of other faction-types: German Infantries/Tanks (combined or by their own) and Russian Planes. This causes, as I said, that almost 90% of matches you see identical decks over and over with minimal differences between them, which makes no sense to try other combinations/tactics/strategies to face them... simply because they wont work.

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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby mtormo » 04 Jul 2018, 07:50

Hello,

As always Gusgus78, I like to read your analysis about the different decks. We're really happy with the changes with the new expansion (there're more competitive decks and some other decks may not be at full potencial due to the lack of some cards) but there're some factions/types that requires "a bit more" to be more balanced.

In the next update, while we add some new cards, our focus will be to "improve" the less used combinations (but we need to be really thorough to not benefit the current top decks).

Regards,
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby Assassin » 04 Jul 2018, 14:37

Well...if gus is saying that AT LEAST FOUR different nation combos are very powerful then something is working better ;)
I agree it improved in the last update...not all is ok, of course...it probably will never be...so is the world of gaming... ;)

Gus made a great analysis...i will focus on what i dont fully agree...but it is mostly a question of details and perspective...each player sees the board a bit different depending on what he is using...

BIG DETAIL...one deck strength can change A LOT just by adding ONE CARD...so one very good deck can become almost unstoppable once that key card appears...good example is HEAT diamond on jap ship decks...when facing non-infantry decks.
And the really good decks still MIX two unit types...jap "ships only" or "planes only" is still way below the combo of both...

I dont think Brit infantry is as good as Jap Ships+Planes...brit infantry is on level with Russian planes right now...Excellent for both i would think.
Brit ship are better than gus thinks...just not enough players with the required cards...never seen a Diamond King George V for instance...but it has potential to be excellent. (I would bet the very good Brit infantry deck had at least two brit submarines ;) )

Jap tanks are better then they seem...need some "buff" by ships for instance...
Russian ships are also a nice support for planes now...
American tanks are not as bad also...they are not good...but can give problems if you have the good cards and are supported by infantry...

In the end...i agree with the analysis...some combos need some buffing to keep up...as was done with US infantry that is now competitive. US planes, Russian tanks, Russian Infantry, Brit planes and Japanese Tanks seem good candidates for this...
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby gusgus78 » 10 Jul 2018, 08:08

Hi!

My feeling about faction-types is conditioned by two variables, so it is not entirely exactly BUT I think it is very very approximate at least:

1.- Obviusly I have not made the tests with all available Diamonds (perhaps in some years I will :D) per faction-type, but I have made them with average crafted ones (play-for-free units, unit promoters, unit attack-defense improvers and some special crafted items and orders).
2.- I have valued each faction-type WITHOUT big support from other types (for example, Russian Infantries without using Russian Planes or British Tanks without using British Infantries). Its obvious that if its played some type combined with powerful type of faction, the deck should work better. But I only want to show that in only type vs. type comparision there are many distance of quality (for example British Infantries vs. Russian Infantries) when played the faction by its own with few must-in-tool-cards.

That said and for clarifying a little bit more the ranking of the faction-types played by its own, they would be in this order of quality IMO:

1.- Japan Ships
2.- British Infantries
3.- German Tanks
4.- German Infantries
5.- Russian Planes
6.- American Ships
7.- American Infantries
8.- British Ships
9.- Japan Planes
10.- German Planes
11.- German Ships
12.- Japan Infantries
13.- British Tanks
14.- Russian Ships
15.- British Planes
16.- Russian Infantries
17.- American Tanks
18.- Japan Tanks
19.- Russian Tanks
20.- American Planes

This makes that around 80% of PvP matches you face same from 1 to 10 faction combinations decks.

I think big part of unbalancing in addition to special abilities of some units, it is in special three ablities that can make the difference (IMO): Deploy, Expeditionary Force and Scout Division. This abilities allow player to make instant damage to opponent or even kill units with minimum AP in most cases. With exception of American Flag units and British Invincible ones, all units are in disadvantage against this. Other types units must to wait 1 turn before they can be available to attack. In summary, it is courious that the most powerfull faction-types IMO have many units with one or two of those abilities.

Other faction-types (for example Russian Tanks or Japan Tanks) have a lot of unit with Deploy ability... BUT they are so weak that they do not represent big danger on played.

All of us should be able to play any pure faction-type deck and take around same ratio of victory (except by the variables above mentioned).

Greetings!!
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby Johnwayne » 10 Jul 2018, 16:55

Great work Gusgus!
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby mtormo » 11 Jul 2018, 07:49

Hello,

As always thanks for your posts are really useful for other and players and for us!

Regards,
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Re: Factions/Types Ranking (IMO)

Postby Assassin » 11 Jul 2018, 10:29

I really dont think many factions combos are "viable" as standalone...a Brit deck with only planes is POSSIBLE...but not really usable in PVP. It is hard to make a competitive Jap deck without Yamamoto...which is a SHIP and by "strict" rules cant be used in other decks :) Not to mention I400 that would make no sense on a ship only deck...

In THIS sense...considering decks that are MAINLY the specific nation/type combo...but can be supported...the ranking would be different...for instance...jap tanks mix well with jap ships (and HEAT warhead) and not being top class can be used in PVP fairly well...
Also not sure why Russian planes is in 5th...if you add capture cards it is a strong contender for 2nd...

There are many variables ;)

If it helps...any new player should invest in:
Russian planes (cheapest deck to make strong)
German Tanks and Infantry (mix well together while you have few of each)
Brit anything...also good combos...perhaps tanks a little less
Japanese deck is actually the strongest...but also the one that requires more RARE and EXPENSIVE cards...so not the best initial choice...once you get it going is a power monster
American is perhaps the hardest to make work (ships are expensive without the power of japs)...although US infantry is now a great faction...just make sure you can make the best cards...
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